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XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX TUE JULY 27, 2004 16:02:35 ET XXXXX
MICHAEL MOORE/O'REILLY SHOWDOWN AT CONVENTION
Tue Jul 27 2004 16:51:50 ET
FOX NEWS is planning to air a redhot interview between Bill O'Reilly and boxoffice sensation Michael Moore on Tuesday.
The DRUDGE REPORT has obtained an embargoed transcript of the session:
Moore: Thatï¿½s fair, weï¿½ll just stick to the issues
Oï¿½Reilly: The issuesï¿½ alright good, now, one of the issues is you because youï¿½ve been calling Bush a liar on weapons of mass destruction, the senate intelligence committee, Lord Butlerï¿½s investigation in Britain, and now the 911 Commission have all come out and said there was no lying on the part of President Bush.ï¿½ Plus, Gladimir Putin has said his intelligence told Bush there were weapons of mass destruction.ï¿½ Wanna apologize to the president now or later?
M: He didnï¿½t tell the truth, he said there were weapons of mass destruction.
O: Yeah, but he didnï¿½t lie, he was misinformed by - all of those investigations come to the same conclusion, thatï¿½s not a lie.
M: uh huh, so in other words if I told you right now that nothing was going on down here on the stageï¿½
O: That would be a lie because we could see that wasnï¿½t the truth
M: Well, Iï¿½d have to turn around to see it, and then I would realize, oh, Bill, I just told you something that wasnï¿½t trueï¿½ actually itï¿½s president Bush that needs to apologize to the nation for telling an entire country that there were weapons of mass destruction, that they had evidence of this, and that there was some sort of connection between Saddam Hussein and September 11th, and he used that as a ï¿½
O: Ok, He never said that, but back to the other thing, if you, if Michael Moore is president ï¿½
M: I thought you said you saw the movie, I show all that in the movie
O: Which may happen if Hollywood, yeah, OK, fine ï¿½
M: But that was your question ï¿½
O: Just the issues.ï¿½ Youï¿½ve got three separate investigations plus the president of Russia all sayingï¿½ British intelligence, US intelligence, Russian intelligence, told the president there were weapons of mass destruction, you say, ï¿½he lied.ï¿½ï¿½ This is not a lie if you believe it to be true, now he may have made a mistake, which is obvious ï¿½
M: Well, thatï¿½s almost pathological ï¿½ I mean, many criminals believe what they say is true, they could pass a lie detector test ï¿½
O: Alright, now youï¿½re dancing around a question ï¿½
M: No Iï¿½m not, thereï¿½s no dancing
O: He didnï¿½t lie
M: He said something that wasnï¿½t true
O: Based upon bad information given to him by legitimate sources
M: Now you know that they went to the CIA, Cheney went to the CIA, they wanted that information, they wouldnï¿½t listen to anybody
O: They wouldnï¿½t go by Russian intelligence and Blairï¿½s intelligence too
M: His own people told him, I mean he went to Richard Clarke the day after September 11th and said ï¿½What you got on Iraq?ï¿½ and Richard Clarkeï¿½s going ï¿½Oh well this wasnï¿½t Iraq that did this sir, this was Al Qaeda.ï¿½
O: Youï¿½re diverting the issueï¿½did you read Woodwardï¿½s book?
M: No, I havenï¿½t read his book.
O: Woodwardï¿½s a good reporter, right?ï¿½ Good guy, you know who he is right?
M: I know who he is.
O: Ok, he says in his book George Tenet looked the president in the eye, like how I am looking you in the eye right now and said ï¿½President, weapons of mass destruction are a quote, end quote, ï¿½slam dunkï¿½ if youï¿½re the president, you ignore all that?
M: Yeah, I would say that the CIA had done a pretty poor job.
O: I agree.ï¿½ The lieutenant was fired.
M: Yeah, but not before they took us to war based on his intelligence.ï¿½ This is a man who ran the CIA, a CIA that was so poorly organized and run that it wouldnï¿½t communicate with the FBI before September 11th and as a result in part we didnï¿½t have a very good intelligence system set up before September 11th
O: Nobody disputes that
M: Ok, so he screws up September 11th.ï¿½ Why would you then listen to him, he says this is a ï¿½slam dunkï¿½ and your going to go to war.
O: Youï¿½ve got MI-6 and Russian intelligence because theyï¿½re all saying the same thing thatï¿½s why.ï¿½ Youï¿½re not going to apologize to Bush, you are going to continue to call him a liar.
M: Oh, he lied to the nation, Bill, I canï¿½t think of a worse thing to do for a president to lie to a country to take them to war, I mean, I donï¿½t know a worse ï¿½
O: It wasnï¿½t a lie
M: He did not tell the truth, what do you call that?
O: I call that bad information, acting on bad information ï¿½ not a lie
M: A seven year old can get away with that ï¿½
O: Alright, your turn to ask me a questionï¿½
M: ï¿½Mom and Dad it was just bad informationï¿½ï¿½
O: Iï¿½m not going to get you to admit it wasnï¿½t a lie, go ahead
M: It was a lie, and now, which leads us to my question
M: Over 900 of our brave soldiers are dead.ï¿½ What do you say to their parents?ï¿½
O: What do I say to their parents?ï¿½ I say what every patriotic American would say. We are proud of your sons and daughters.ï¿½ They answered the call that their country gave them.ï¿½ We respect them and we feel terrible that they were killed.
M: And, but what were they killed for?
O: They were removing a brutal dictator who himself killed hundreds of thousands of people
M: Um, but that was not the reason that was given to them to go to war, to remove a brutal dictator
O: Well weï¿½re back to the weapons of mass destruction
M: But that was the reason
O: The weapons of mass destruction
M: That we were told we were under some sort of imminent threat
O: Thatï¿½s right
M: And there was no threat, was there?
O: It was a mistake
M: Oh, just a mistake, and thatï¿½s what you tell all the parents with a deceased child, ï¿½Weï¿½re sorry.ï¿½ï¿½ I donï¿½t think that is good enough.
O: I donï¿½t think its good enough either for those parents
M: So we agree on that
O: but that is the historical nature of what happened
M: Bill, if I made a mistake and I said something or did something as a result of my mistake but it resulted in the death of your child, how would you feel towards me?
O: It depends on whether the mistake was unintentional
M: No, not intentional, it was a mistake
O: Then if it was an unintentional mistake I cannot hold you morally responsible for that
M: Really, Iï¿½m driving down the road and I hit your child and your child is dead
O: If it were unintentional and you werenï¿½t impaired or anything like that
M: So thatï¿½s all it is, if it was alcohol, even though it was a mistake ï¿½ how would you feel towards me
O: Ok, now we are wandering
M: No, but my point is ï¿½
O: I saw what your point is and I answered your question
M: But why?ï¿½ What did they die for?
O: They died to remove a brutal dictator who had killed hundreds of thousands of people ï¿½
M: No, that was not the reason ï¿½
O: Thatï¿½s what they died for
M: -they were given ï¿½
O: The weapons of mass destruction was a mistake
M: Well there were 30 other brutal dictators in this world ï¿½
O:ï¿½ Alright, Iï¿½ve got anther questionï¿½
M: Would you sacrificeï¿½just finish on this.ï¿½ Would you sacrifice your child to remove one of the other 30 brutal dictators on this planet?
O: Depends what the circumstances were.
M: You would sacrifice your child?
O: I would sacrifice myselfï¿½Iï¿½m not talking for any childrenï¿½to remove the Taliban. Would you?
M: Uh huh.
O: Would you? Thatï¿½s my next question. Would you sacrifice yourself to remove the Taliban?
M: I would be willing to sacrifice my life to track down the people that killed 3,000 people on our soil.
O: Al Qeada was given refuge by the Taliban.
M: But we didnï¿½t go after themï¿½did we?
O: We removed the Taliban and killed three quarters of Al Qeada.
M: Thatï¿½s why the Taliban are still killing our soldiers there.
O: OK, well look you cant kill everybody. You wouldnï¿½t have invaded Afghanistanï¿½you wouldnï¿½t have invaded Afghanistan, would you?
M: No, I would have gone after the man that killed 3,000 people.
M: As Richard Clarke says, our special forces were prohibited for two months from going to the area that we believed Osama wasï¿½
O: Why was that?
M: Thatï¿½s my question.
O: Because Pakistan didnï¿½t want its territory of sovereignty violated.
M: Not his was in Afghanistan, on the border, we didnï¿½t go there. He got a two month head start.
O: Alright, you would not have removed the Taliban. You would not have removed that government?
M: No, unless it is a threat to us.
O: Any government? Hitler, in Germany, not a threat to us the beginning but over there executing people all day longï¿½you would have let him go?
M: Thatï¿½s not true. Hitler with Japan, attacked the United States.
O: Beforeï¿½from 33-until 41 he wasnï¿½t an imminent threat to the United States.
M: Thereï¿½s a lot of things we should have done.
O: You wouldnï¿½t have removed him.
M: I wouldnï¿½t have even allowed him to come to power.
O: That was a preemption from Michael Mooreï¿½you would have invaded.
M: If weï¿½d done our job, you want to get into to talking about what happened before WWI, woah, Iï¿½m trying to stop this war right now.
O: I know you are butï¿½
M: Are you against that? Stopping this war?
O: No we cannot leave Iraq right now, we have toï¿½
M: So you would sacrifice your child to secure Fallujah? I want to hear you say that.
O: I would sacrifice myselfï¿½
M: Your childï¿½Its Bush sending the children there.
O: I would sacrifice myself.
M: You and I donï¿½t go to war, because weï¿½re too oldï¿½
O: Because if we back down, there will be more deaths and you know it.
M: Say ï¿½I Bill Oï¿½Reilly would sacrifice my child to secure Fallujahï¿½
O: Iï¿½m not going to say what you say, youï¿½re a, thatï¿½s ridiculous
M: You donï¿½t believe that. Why should Bush sacrifice the children of people across America for this?
O: Look itï¿½s a worldwide terrorismï¿½I know that escapes youï¿½
M: Wait a minute, terrorism? Iraq?
O: Yes. There are terrorist in Iraq.
M: Oh really? So Iraq now is responsible for the terrorism here?
O: Iraq aided terroristï¿½donï¿½t you know anything about any of that?
M: So youï¿½re saying Iraq is responsible for what?
O: Iï¿½m saying that Saddam Hussein aided all day long.
M: Youï¿½re not going to get me to defend Saddam Hussein.
O: Iï¿½m not? Youï¿½re his biggest defender in the media.
M: Now come on.
O: Look, if you were running he would still be sitting there.
M: How do you know that?
O: If you were running the country, heï¿½d still be sitting there.
M: How do you know that?
O: You wouldnï¿½t have removed him.
M: Look let me tell you something in the 1990s look at all the brutal dictators that were removed. Things were done, you take any of a number of countries whether its Eastern Europe, the people rose up. South Africa the whole world boycotted---
O: When Reagan was building up the arms, you were against that.
M: And the dictators were gone. Building up the arms did not cause the fall of Eastern Europe.
O: Of course it did, it bankrupted the Soviet Union and then it collapsed.
M: The people rose up.
O: why? Because they went bankrupt.
M: the same way we did in our country, the way we had our revolution. People rose upï¿½
O: Alright alright.
M:--thatï¿½s how you, let me ask you this question.
O: One more.
M: How do you deliver democracy to a country? You donï¿½t do it down the barrel of a gun. Thatï¿½s not how you deliver it.
O: You give the people some kind of self-determination, which they never would have had under Saddamï¿½
M: Why didnï¿½t they rise up?
O: Because they couldnï¿½t, it was a Gestapo-led place where they got their heads cut offï¿½
M: well thatï¿½s true in many countries throughout the world__
O: It is, itï¿½s a shameï¿½
M:--and you know what people have done, theyï¿½ve risen up.ï¿½ You can do it in a number of ways . You can do it our way through a violent revolution, which we won, the French did it that way. You can do it by boycotting South Africa, they overthrew the dictator there. Thereï¿½s many waysï¿½
O: Iï¿½m glad weï¿½ve had this discussion because it just shows you that I see the world my way, you see the world your way, alrightï¿½and the audience is watching us here and they can decide who is right and who is wrong and thatï¿½s the fair way to do it. Right?
M: Right, I would not sacrifice my child to secure Fallujah and you would?
O: I would sacrifice myself.
M: You wouldnï¿½t send another child, another parents child to Fallujah, would you? You would sacrifice your life to secure Fallujah?
O: I would.
M: Can we sign him up? Can we sign him up right now?
O: Thatï¿½s right.
M: Whereï¿½s the recruiter?
O: Youï¿½d love to get rid of me.
M: No I donï¿½t wantï¿½I want you to live. I want you to live.
O: I appreciate that. Michael Moore everybody. There he isï¿½
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